Author Topic: Trump Discussion  (Read 293 times)

0 Members and 0 Guests are viewing this topic.

DuckieDoll

  • Guest
Re: Trump Discussion
« Reply #18 on: August 24, 2019, 10:27:36 pm »
What a complete unnecessary fiasco this whole Greenland/Denmark visit has tuned into.  The guy is complete embarrassment at times.  I don't even know what I will say when my co-workers over their ask me what I think of him. They always want to know what I think about him when I am over there.  I have to choose my words carefully.  It's a delicate dance.  Almost everyone over their hates him.

At the same time the alternative that democrats offer is open borders, turning America into Brazil cause making America less white and more brown and marginalization of white people politically by ensuring they are a minority group in America is a huge part of the democrat platform (according to them this isn't racist ... you are only racist if you think turning america into Brazil demographically is pretty much gonna turn America into Brazil and don't support making America less white for this reason) , identity politics, free everything, higher taxes, taking away my healthcare and forcing me to go on crap gov healthcare, reparations, and blaming white peoples and racism for everything..

My choices are between an uncouth embarrassment that constantly puts his foot in his mouth, but who advocates for much better policies in most instances compared to democrats or democrats who while they might not be quite as much of an embarrassment have god awful policies in lost instances.

No President in my life time has been as unnecessarily boorish with a complete lack of diplomacy as Trump ... his behavior brings shame and dishonor to the office.  I'm getting really tired of having to ignore objectionable behavior.  It's never stopped.  It's almost daily.  Still what is worse objectionable behavior or objectionable policy?  To me it's policy.  Quite the conundrum.  If only the guy would tone it down. :-X
You're the first person that's explained why they would vote for Trump, without excusing his behavior, and making excuses for it. Thank you, and well put.
The only thing I could argue against is that no matter the policy spoken by a moderate or far left Democrat, most big ideas aren't getting through the House, and Senate. I'd vote a Democrat over global embarrassment, and loss of world ranking anyday.

NC Yankee

  • Guest
Re: Trump Discussion
« Reply #19 on: August 25, 2019, 02:35:20 am »
You're the first person that's explained why they would vote for Trump, without excusing his behavior, and making excuses for it. Thank you, and well put.
The only thing I could argue against is that no matter the policy spoken by a moderate or far left Democrat, most big ideas aren't getting through the House, and Senate. I'd vote a Democrat over global embarrassment, and loss of world ranking anyday.

What policies of democrats would you want to get through the house and senate?  When I hear them they sound like the TurboTax commercial where they say  "free, free, free."  Free, free, free  and massive spending programs and massive tax increases and giving more power over our lives to them supposedly in the name of helping people.  It never ends too.  It's not like they ever wanna stop.  Once they get their way they always think of more ways to spend money, more ways to tax people, and more ways to gain more power over individual lives.  It's not like they ever say, okay, our work is done here and we have enough taxes and enough government programs.  It never stops.  It never will. 

They even wanna try to spend money fixing Latin America's problems and importing their problems  when they haven't fixed all the stuff that needs fixing here.  How the heck are we gonna fix their problems when we we can't even fix our own and when that part of the world has been a basket case for going on 200 years since they won independence.  Why is that even our government's responsibility?

NC Yankee

  • Guest
Re: Trump Discussion
« Reply #20 on: August 25, 2019, 02:41:10 am »
Holy crap ... look at Dane Cook:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Botchedsurgeries/comments/cux87t/dane_cook/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app

What the hell happened to him?

After seeing that, I'm so thankful I inherited my grandmas youthful genes.  I stopped aging at 30.  I look and feel the same.  I remember looking at pictures from my 20 year H.S. reunion and being like holy crap people look so old. 

DuckieDoll

  • Guest
Re: Trump Discussion
« Reply #21 on: August 25, 2019, 10:16:34 am »
What policies of democrats would you want to get through the house and senate?  When I hear them they sound like the TurboTax commercial where they say  "free, free, free."  Free, free, free  and massive spending programs and massive tax increases and giving more power over our lives to them supposedly in the name of helping people.  It never ends too.  It's not like they ever wanna stop.  Once they get their way they always think of more ways to spend money, more ways to tax people, and more ways to gain more power over individual lives.  It's not like they ever say, okay, our work is done here and we have enough taxes and enough government programs.  It never stops.  It never will. 

They even wanna try to spend money fixing Latin America's problems and importing their problems  when they haven't fixed all the stuff that needs fixing here.  How the heck are we gonna fix their problems when we we can't even fix our own and when that part of the world has been a basket case for going on 200 years since they won independence.  Why is that even our government's responsibility?
That's a tough question. I'm more for moderation, and the issues. I believe everyone should be able to afford healthcare, but for that the insurance, and pharmaceutical companies need to be put in check. Yes immigration needs work, but there's comment sense approachs somewhere out there to fix it. One president isn't going to fix something that's been broke for many years. America's debt is going to reach 1 trillion in 2020. Who's fixing that?
I'm pro-choice, for gay marriage, my family owns guns, and hunts. I'm for helping out anyone that's trying to better their life for their kids. I'm agnostic, but believe people should be allowed to worship who they choose. People are hypocritics. Keep their freedoms, but take others.
Nothing will be accomplished in Washington with all these morons there. I know our problems should stay here in America, and be fixed among us, and not put on the world's stage to weaken us. We are the greatest superpower in history, and our confidence around the world in declining daily.

DuckieDoll

  • Guest
Re: Trump Discussion
« Reply #22 on: August 25, 2019, 10:34:31 am »
Think about this. My friend started college, and worked part time as an adult. Had abdominal pain and was taken to emergency room. She needed a CT Scan, but because of having no insurance the hospital did not approve it. Sent her home with a few pain meds, was told to follow up with family doctor. 2 month later back in emergency room, with lump in abdomen. She died 6 months later of cancer, at 31. One scan could of saved her.

NC Yankee

  • Guest
Re: Trump Discussion
« Reply #23 on: August 25, 2019, 12:53:37 pm »
Think about this. My friend started college, and worked part time as an adult. Had abdominal pain and was taken to emergency room. She needed a CT Scan, but because of having no insurance the hospital did not approve it. Sent her home with a few pain meds, was told to follow up with family doctor. 2 month later back in emergency room, with lump in abdomen. She died 6 months later of cancer, at 31. One scan could of saved her.

If your friend lived in Canada the average wait time to even see a specialist who could order a CT scan,  after a referral from a GP, is 20 to 21 weeks.  So your friend would have had to go to her GP, which probably would take a week or two, then wait on average 20-21 weeks to see a specialist who would order a ct scan, and then god knows how long before they actually got in for the CT scan, and then god knows how long before they saw the specialist again to read the results.

That's a lot longer than 2 months she waited.

Also whereas the vast majority of Americans have health insurance and don't face a situation like she did, everyone is treated like that in Canada.  Making everyone wait 20 some weeks to see a specialist just so an uninsured person doesn't wait 2 months seems like you are making the problem worse even for the uninsured person.

There are long waits in the U.K. too. 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/sallypipes/2019/04/01/britains-version-of-medicare-for-all-is-collapsing/#fd093b336b89

In the U.K.:

"Wait times for cancer treatment ó where timeliness can be a matter of life and death ó are also far too lengthy. According to January NHS England data, almost 25% of cancer patients didnít start treatment on time despite an urgent referral by their primary care doctor."


NC Yankee

  • Guest
Re: Trump Discussion
« Reply #24 on: August 25, 2019, 12:58:28 pm »
Why didn't your friend have insurance through her college?  I thought most colleges offer some sort of plan and you can even use student loans to cover it?

NC Yankee

  • Guest
Re: Trump Discussion
« Reply #25 on: August 25, 2019, 01:19:55 pm »
If your friend lived in Canada the average wait time to even see a specialist who could order a CT scan,  after a referral from a GP, is 20 to 21 weeks.  So your friend would have had to go to her GP, which probably would take a week or two, then wait on average 20-21 weeks to see a specialist who would order a ct scan, and then god knows how long before they actually got in for the CT scan, and then god knows how long before they saw the specialist again to read the results.

That's a lot longer than 2 months she waited.

Also whereas the vast majority of Americans have health insurance and don't face a situation like she did, everyone is treated like that in Canada.  Making everyone wait 20 some weeks to see a specialist just so an uninsured person doesn't wait 2 months seems like you are making the problem worse even for the uninsured person.

There are long waits in the U.K. too. 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/sallypipes/2019/04/01/britains-version-of-medicare-for-all-is-collapsing/#fd093b336b89

In the U.K.:

"Wait times for cancer treatment ó where timeliness can be a matter of life and death ó are also far too lengthy. According to January NHS England data, almost 25% of cancer patients didnít start treatment on time despite an urgent referral by their primary care doctor."

Also, in the U.K. when they say "on time", they mean 62 days after referral.  That's 2 months.  So even if your friend lived in the U.K. and had free healthcare, she would have died and probably she would have died in Canada too.  Her chances of living would be much greater if she bought student health insurance than if she had Canadian or U.K. style free healthcare.

DuckieDoll

  • Guest
Re: Trump Discussion
« Reply #26 on: August 25, 2019, 01:54:06 pm »
I've never heard of insurance being offered by a college. Maybe it's bigger Universities, or different states that do this? I went to the same college as her, and don't remember anything like that being offered. For her, she lived mostly off her student loans, while she did work part time, benefits were more expensive than if she had worked full-time.

It seems if the wait is that long across the world, then it's the price of these machines that are holding the sick under water. Profits matter in big business though.

NC Yankee

  • Guest
Re: Trump Discussion
« Reply #27 on: August 25, 2019, 02:35:30 pm »
I've never heard of insurance being offered by a college. Maybe it's bigger Universities, or different states that do this? I went to the same college as her, and don't remember anything like that being offered. For her, she lived mostly off her student loans, while she did work part time, benefits were more expensive than if she had worked full-time.

It seems if the wait is that long across the world, then it's the price of these machines that are holding the sick under water. Profits matter in big business though.

A lot of colleges offer them.  It's possible yours didn't, but i bet most students would go without even if they were aware about it.  When you are young, you think you are invincible and for a lot of young people without kids insurance is something you don't think you need at that age until you need it.  It's called Russian roulette.  Some people lose the bet.

The problem with healthcare is there is no free lunch.  If you want the standard of care most of us who have insurance are accustomed to, it would never be possible with a one payer system.  According to Bernie he can provide everyone with government healthcare for about what we currently spend total as a nation on healthcare by moving to Medicare for all.  The problem with that is Medicare pays such low rates that Medicare only even works today because those of us with insurance pay much higher rates that in effect subsidize Medicare rates and these subsidies are the only thing allowing many drs and medical providers to stay in business if they see a lot of Medicare patients.  It's why a lot of drs don't like to even see Medicaid and Medicare patients and many likitnhow many they will take on as patients. So the system would suffer a massive quality loss if all drs and hospitals only received was the Medicare rate.  So Bernie can only promise Medicare for all with a massive drop in quality.  There is no way around it.  He won't tell anyone that, tho.

Systems like the U.K. and Canada have also gave nurse and dr shortages, cause they don't pay enough for enough people to want to go through the rigors of becoming a nurse or a dr.  So they have to recruit a lot of drs who are trained in poorer nations who do not have the same standard of training.

A lot of people want national healthcare, but it seems to me you are just trading on set of problems for another set of problems.

NC Yankee

  • Guest
Re: Trump Discussion
« Reply #28 on: August 25, 2019, 02:55:12 pm »
Bernie takes advantage of people's ignorance.  90 percent of the folks who support his plan are completely clueless of the fact that Medicaid only works so well for retires because the rest of us with insurance subsidize it by paying much.  According to the CBO, "Private insurance rates were 89% higher on average than Medicare FFS rates, according to CBO."

So his Medicare for all plan isn't gonna be what he says it will be.  It's not like we are all gonna get the same standard of care that current Medicare patients receive.  It's not possible.  As things stand right  now I have great private insurance (yes it does cost a bunch and that is the downside)  and in the future I can look forward to great Medicare.  Bernie only offers me worse healthcare for the rest of my life and no savings.  The savings his program offers is just used to give currently uninsured folks the same crappy insurance we'll all have.

Offline Jackie

  • Forum Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8090
  • Karma 430
  • Happy New Year 2020!!!!
Re: Trump Discussion
« Reply #29 on: August 25, 2019, 03:05:26 pm »
If your friend lived in Canada the average wait time to even see a specialist who could order a CT scan,  after a referral from a GP, is 20 to 21 weeks.  So your friend would have had to go to her GP, which probably would take a week or two, then wait on average 20-21 weeks to see a specialist who would order a ct scan, and then god knows how long before they actually got in for the CT scan, and then god knows how long before they saw the specialist again to read the results.

That's a lot longer than 2 months she waited.

Also whereas the vast majority of Americans have health insurance and don't face a situation like she did, everyone is treated like that in Canada.  Making everyone wait 20 some weeks to see a specialist just so an uninsured person doesn't wait 2 months seems like you are making the problem worse even for the uninsured person.

There are long waits in the U.K. too. 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/sallypipes/2019/04/01/britains-version-of-medicare-for-all-is-collapsing/#fd093b336b89

In the U.K.:

"Wait times for cancer treatment ó where timeliness can be a matter of life and death ó are also far too lengthy. According to January NHS England data, almost 25% of cancer patients didnít start treatment on time despite an urgent referral by their primary care doctor."

I remember hearing about Canada's healthcare, the waiting periods for anything was long.
2020 The Year For Clear Vision

NC Yankee

  • Guest
Re: Trump Discussion
« Reply #30 on: August 25, 2019, 03:16:08 pm »
People when they look at the cost of private insurance in this country don't realize that it would be about a good 20-25 percent less costly if it wasn't used to subsidize Medicare and Medicaid. 

NC Yankee

  • Guest
Re: Trump Discussion
« Reply #31 on: August 25, 2019, 03:31:32 pm »
I remember hearing about Canada's healthcare, the waiting periods for anything was long.

It's much worse than that because:

"Actuarial analysis of the Canadian health care system concludes that, at current growth rates, a staggering 97 per cent of total revenues available to provinces and territories will be spent on health care expenditures by 2037, compared to 44 per cent in 2012."

So not only are wait times going up but Canada is spending more and more of a percentage of its
budget on a system that is still falling behind and so much so that if quality cuts are not accelerated to reduce costs further and spending keeps rising at the current rates it's going to consume the entire budget of Canadian proveniences.

Social security and Medicare are already facing insolvency too.  This whole national healthcare to me sounds like a complete disaster.